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Post by creatives50 on Dec 13, 2005 15:01:28 GMT -5
Basic problem for AGI is that, no matter what hero type you take, AGI is always the most important trait. (armor & attack speed, and of course, damage on AGI based heroes)
If you take an INT based hero, you have to get all 3 stats, which is tough. So INT heroes need to have "buffed" spells.
I've seen this in a lot of maps, you must pick AGI or STR hero, or lose, unfortunately, they often times do not have high mana cost for the abilities they have, so they end up dealing way more damage than the standard INT hero on the same map. The only time I've seen INT heroes be important as well as useful was in footman frenzy for AOE or when they have a healing ability for allies. Too many STR or AGI heros have an AOE that robs the INT hero of power that, is in my mind, the only reason to take such a hero.
Since I don't use Heroes in HaE (Empire player) I don't really know how this works in HaE... Comments?
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Post by FinalLegacy on Dec 13, 2005 18:08:38 GMT -5
well agi is indeed the most important one for melee/ranged heroes but i dont why casters need it. for melee/ranged its going to be str only now and for casters it'll be int only. like this there will be more balancing.
the choices for each level up you get are (+2 str) (+2 agi) and (+2 int). heroes should get their str/int high to get hp and dmg and can upgrade their speed on a higher level.
for casters i suggest to stick with intelligence though. no need to get a faster attack speed.
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Post by creatives50 on Dec 17, 2005 1:01:43 GMT -5
Casters still need to do ranged attacks (aka melee) AGI is still for that attack speed. And every hero does do normal attacks (non spell) so they need AGI for attack speed, STR for hitpoints, and INT for the mana for spells. Thats why they aren't as good if not properly balanced.
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Post by ScytaleIRAx on Dec 18, 2005 10:53:35 GMT -5
the way the skill system works in 7.2, the only thing an int-based hero needs is int. since they get such an enormous amount of it from magic and elemental skills, there is no reason to increase attack speed--the kill most things in 1 hit anyway. once you break lvl 200, just put the rest into 'hands' skill, for move and attack speed. having +0 str for a level 200 int-based hero of mine is perfectly normal. they have 0 use for str, given the awesome mana shield.
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Post by creatives50 on Dec 19, 2005 17:46:36 GMT -5
the way the skill system works in 7.2, the only thing an int-based hero needs is int. since they get such an enormous amount of it from magic and elemental skills, there is no reason to increase attack speed--the kill most things in 1 hit anyway. once you break lvl 200, just put the rest into 'hands' skill, for move and attack speed. having +0 str for a level 200 int-based hero of mine is perfectly normal. they have 0 use for str, given the awesome mana shield. Absolutely in HaE this is true for strength. I wasn't speaking of "just" HaE though, it was a general comment. I've noticed that, regardless of the INT hero option being pretty solid, most people still pick the ranger hero. In fact, the last few games I've been in almost everyone chose ranger. Thats just screaming (to me) that ranger is a favorite because they know AGI is king and they know rangers are AGI. It may just be that players have grown accustomed to using AGI heros and are chosing ones that are likely a good choice. And, after play testing, I have to agree that the ranger is a powerful choice, with the passive damage increases the ranger gets. The reason why would you want to "buff" AGI on non agi heros is for the attack speed. If you deal 900 damage a hit, you aren't going to want to have a slow attack speed. I'm going to try a hero game in a little bit, and test my thinking. <--- first edit spelling second edit limited testing ----> Okay, ran a wizard to level 30, in roughly 15 minutes of afk patrolling. I used my stats as follows 10 bow, 10 elemental, 5 magic, 5 bow. I don't like melee range on a wizard, so I took just enough to let me get that first hit on melee. With the improved agi i'm hitting roughly every second and killing the lvl 6's easily and quickly. My hero's stats s 33 a 66 i 86 armor 34 damage 268 attack speed fast range 160 damage reduction 25% move speed average In HaE, no matter the class you take, you can build a solid hero, even if the heroes skills sucks. Not all maps are like that thou.
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Post by ScytaleIRAx on Dec 26, 2005 11:23:20 GMT -5
again, as i explained earlier;
If you select a hero skill you get said points in the correct stats every level of it. every 5 levels of that SAME skill, the bonus is multiplied by the number of increments of 5 there have been(test it with staff to see it more clearly). therefore, if you have 5 levels of magic(+3) and 5 levels of elemental(+4) you have 5x3 and 5x4, 35 int. if you have only magic, then it is 5x3 and 5x6, 45. this fact becomes more and more important as the game progresses, and is why some of the best hero players may use a wizard and never have a single point of agil or str, or why good players with agil have maxed bow for their first 100 skills.
Therefore; the wizard hero you created is fairly pathetic given that focusing on only magic for int and manashield would have produced 315 int, 4725 mana(51975 hp if only used for manashield), 955 damage. also, the small range bonus you got is meaningless since heroes will either have very good range or very good hp and that one hit would not make much difference.
That last part about bow's range brings another point--- some skills have a bonus that is increased every 5 levels. perhaps you misunderstood that that is every 5 levels invested in that skill. by this rule, putting all of your points in magic or staff or another skill with a secondary effect would vastly increase the effect that these produce.
oh, and about your wizard being a 'solid hero'... that is not something you want to attain. the wizard has incredible skills, and they are best used if she has maxed int which implies the magic skill. If by 'solid hero' you mean that it is well-rounded, then the only hero that might try to become rounded as you said would be a paladin that uses staff... but who does that?
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Post by forsakenoone on Jan 4, 2006 18:41:56 GMT -5
HaE is my favorite warcraft 3 game and i've come to notice that with the trader, one hit with gold strike (max level), will kill kalenden
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Post by FinalLegacy on Jan 4, 2006 19:35:09 GMT -5
for real? never heard about that one
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Post by Nikholson on Jan 5, 2006 0:26:07 GMT -5
You actually went all the way to lv 900?
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Post by blindfate on Jan 5, 2006 17:56:42 GMT -5
1)Always focus on only ONE skill, i say sword for warriors/monks and bow for rangers. 2)A good newb class is Warrior since all his special skills are passive. 3)The new skills you get is due to leveling, they level up until you reach level 90 which is when you get your ultimate (Ranger's one is Tri-Shot) 4)Obelisks are guarded by 12 monsters of the creep level you are in. 5)I think the curse is 75% miss 6)If you are alone KILL KNILOHNOS as he have a "Stop" spell which really really really fuck you when you are alone. And the painfully obvious mistake you made is splitting your points. By the way, learn to spell the names correctly: blademaster is Knilohnos and lich is Duasq. Also items are mostly useful to builders, to freelancers and general they can only be sold. I disagree, for monk, it takes a little more effort (and a friendly empire to hire you or a friend whos a builder to share control) but dumping everything into handskill first and getting level11 armor is great
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Post by Sleaker on Jan 14, 2006 19:27:46 GMT -5
I usualy go sword skill on the monk build.. and then switch to full hand later on.
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Post by FinalLegacy on Jan 24, 2006 20:53:43 GMT -5
just would like to add that its nice to give ur hero 1 hand skill in the beginning when the difficulty is set on average or lower, this causes you to get one kill on one shot
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Post by Duuude on Feb 5, 2006 23:39:16 GMT -5
hey... i love to use stim on marine lots of times! it makes him attack so fast!
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Post by FinalLegacy on Feb 6, 2006 10:17:25 GMT -5
aye me too i wasnt that bad with terran
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Post by blindfate on Feb 6, 2006 16:34:25 GMT -5
I tried to play SC the other day and I was like omg bad and everyone kept lagging out like wtf. =(
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